Civil Disscussion Is Dead in What In The World

By Darth Howie, who was kind enough to share an entry I enjoyed.

I'm trying to understand what our country is becoming. It seems that you are no longer allowed to have a difference of opinion with someone. We are now being told to hate FireFox and don't use Mozilla products because their CEO gave his OWN money to fight gay marriage. They made him CEO because of his abilities, not because of his opinions. I saw on Facebook through Buzzfeed that OKCupid apparently even put up a message to FireFox users asking them to use a different browsers because of this guys beliefs, I thought it was an April Fools thing, so I went to the site on FireFox and it is real.

People argue that because he is the public face of the company that he should now step down. Well I had no clue who the hell he was until I went to Google and looked him up, turns out he also created JavaScript, I bet those calling for his head are also going to stop using that too right?

Sorry but for me the public face of Mozilla is the little orange Fox, not some CEO. Dan Cathy is not the face of Chick Fil A, the Cow saying "Eat mor Chikin" is. People need to draw a line between someone's personal life, and their professional life. People in their jobs are like Stephen Colbert, we are playing characters, and then in our personal life we are someone different, we put on a professional face, and when we get home we put on our personal face. Now if Mozilla's CEO starts steering the country in the direction of his beliefs I can see there being a problem.

That whole flap with the Duck Dynasty guy. Seriously you ask a Southern, deeply Christian man what he thinks of the gay lifestyle, and then you are shocked by his answer. Its his right to believe the lifestyle is wrong, its peoples right not to watch his show, or buy his merchandise, however I don't think the people upset with him watched the show in the first place.

Its as he said later on, "You can accept someone without agreeing with them." Then we had that Arizona bill that didn't go through, one of my friends posted a thing on Facebook, shes conservative but wasn't for or against it, she was just saying that everyone can get their panties out of a bunch now, and two other people (one of whom I'm friends with, who is very liberal) immediately left her comments saying the bill was wrong and hateful, etc, and when I left a comment that if anyone bothered to read the bill they would see it was a change from a previous bill, and that given some of the lawsuits being filed it was understandable. Good lord you'd think I'd slapped a smiling baby with the response I got from my "friend". I ended up deleting my comments because it wasn't the place for the debate.

Do I think gay people should marry?

I don't really care, it doesn't effect me, if they want to do it, more power to them. Means more taxes for states, so that has to be a good thing. Straight people haven't exactly done a great job preserving the sanctity of marriage, so I really don't think gay people are going to mess it up, hell maybe some straight people might learn something by watching some other loving couples. I know Christians argue that it undermines marriage as defined by God, well the last time I checked Christians didn't have the sole claim to marriage, I'm pretty sure its existed long before Christianity, whether you are talking Pagan cultures or other non-Christian religions that exist out there.

At the same time, if a Christian baker or photographer does not want to work for a gay couple, I think that business has the right to decline service, but the problem has been they have then been slapped with a lawsuit because they were not currently protected by the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and from what I read about the Arizona bill is it would add protection for individuals from being sued based on their religious beliefs, which previously protected larger companies, so the law was already there, it just needed some extensions. I think its bad for business to refuse a customer just because they are a gay couple, but I'm also not a Christian, so I really don't understand the belief they have. That being said I don't think its right for them to then be sued because of their belief. I understand the problem is that by refusing service it IS a form of discrimination At the same time, if you were gay, and you know that someone you are trying to order a cake from, doesn't agree with your lifestyle, thinks its wrong, why would you want to then do business with them?

I certainly wouldn't, but I also wouldn't turn around and sue them, but you can bet your ass I'd be telling my family and friends to not do business there, and taking my business somewhere that will happily put two grooms or two brides on a cake.

I know there is/was a case in Canada where a Muslim barber refused to cut a lesbians hair, and now she is suing him. His basis was that his religion does not allow him to cut a woman's hair. Same situation, you have a business that you know doesn't want your business, I'd just go somewhere else.

I know its not the same, but when I was living in South Florida, I went into Sedano's grocery store, its a store that caters more towards Spanish clientle, well I went in their speaking English, they didn't speak English to me, and when they did I was told that I needed to learn Spanish because I lived in South Florida. Guess what, I think thats bullshit, so I have never gone into another Sedano's grocery store. Granted we don't have a national language, but in a country where English is (was in some areas) the dominant language to be told I need to speak another language if I want to shop there, that is another form of discrimination.

I feel like some of these lawsuits are done just to be spiteful. Do they deserve it? I don't really know, maybe on some level. A business owner should be able to run their business as they see fit, if they don't want kids in their store they should be allowed to kick them out (age discrimination), if a Christian wants to shoot themselves in the foot and refuse to make a cake for a gay customer based on their religion, I'm inclined to believe they have that right, I don't agree with it, but I think they have the right to do so.

And one thing that has always puzzled me, why do gay women get their own term, lesbian, but gay men only get the generic term gay?

Tangent I know, but its something I've always wondered.

It all goes back to the argument on Facebook though, you can't have a civil discussion with someone now if they disagree with you. There was a time when you and another person could be on opposite sides of an issue, and have a nice friendly debate, not now, if you aren't on one side you are just flat out wrong. Thats basically what my friend said to me, that anyone who supported that law is a hateful, intolerant bigot, yet not willing to accept someone's opposing viewpoint is just as intolerant.

And I see this all the time, on message boards, on pages of friends, there is just NO civil discussion anymore. I never chime in on messageboards or places I see topics being discussed because there is no discussion, its just two sides yelling at each other, but not actually contributing anything constructive to either side of the discussion, IF you can even understand what exactly people are saying, but that is a completely different entry.

Michael Vick would be another example. A friend was posting about how they can't believe whatever team picked him up would pick him up. What he did was wrong, I don't give a shit what Warren Sapp said about it being part of the culture he grew up in, it was wrong, there are laws against it because enough people believe its wrong. He did his time, he answered for his crimes, does that mean he should then be prevented from making a living, fortunately for him, he happens to be a talented athlete so he can have a lucrative living. Her response was that anyone that believes that can't be an animal lover, again, no civil debate, you are just WRONG, he should still be in jail, he should be deported, etc, etc, no room for talking about it.

It seems like today there is one side people expect everyone to be on, and if you aren't then your a hateful ignorant person.

There are plenty of issues that I think people are wrong on, but I respect their right to the side of the issue they choose to be on, and I'm willing to have a discussion about it without cutting someone off or resorting to name calling, and just because you are one side of an issue doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it. I don't have a problem with gay marriage, but I can understand how Christians do. I do take issue that many of them seem to pick and choose which rules to follow and which ones not to follow, but its not my problem, because that is their life, not mine, and its their right to be narrow minded (my opinion of course, not theirs).

Do I think they have the right to dictate who gets married?

I don't because I don't believe they have sole claim to the concept of marriage. If its something that is going to be voted on then those who support same sex marriage need to make sure they get out and vote, because in the places its been voted down its obvious that those who disagree with it made sure to go vote.